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Post by JM2461 on Sept 3, 2018 12:34:58 GMT 12
Here's one which I'm not sure was made up by the reporter who wrote Don Estelle's obituary for The Guardian, it implies that Jimmy Beck was originally to play Gunner Sugden in It Ain't Half Hot Mum! "Estelle became the obvious choice to play the gunner "Lofty" Sugden in the Croft-Perry team's It Ain't Half Hot Mum when the actor James Beck, who played the spiv Private Walker in Dad's Army, died..." I often wonder how many of these stories (such as James Beck possibly playing Gunner Sugden) are really true, and they're not just some rumour that has just snowballed over the years, or as you say just simply made up. With the passage of time and David Croft, Jimmy Perry, James Beck and Don Estelle all no longer with us, it's very hard to find the truth (if any) behind these stories/rumours. And with the passage of time, it's easier to make these things up as there's very few people around to deny them. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 4, 2018 1:25:14 GMT 12
Despite the fact that these are often promoted as not broadcast quality, I was quite surprised how good a recordings they actually were (give or take a few bits of tape interference in places). I've certainly seen other examples of lost TV shows over the years that were in far worse condition! Yes it is surprisingly good considering it was recorded from TV on home VHS,and then copied a couple of times from memory before the BBC got a copy. Sadly yes, the Aussie stations and TVNZ also here back then used to trim down BBC chows to fit ads into the slots. It used to infuriate people who knew, and eventually they started trimming Coro Street (which being Granada already had ad breaks built in) and once the blue rinse brigade that watches that soap cottoned on there was a huge storm of protest that forced them to make a new policy to make their slots to fit the shows, not the shows to fit the slots. Sadly there are several minutes missing from these two recovered episodes. One scene deleted was when the officer's mess was inadvertently destroyed by Parky's incompetence. But having nearly complete episodes is far better than none at all. Especially as these two shows were integral to the series, as one told the story of how Parky joined the Concert Party, and the other of how the Sgt Major came to think Parky is his son, while the others prove he's not but use the Sgt Major's belief to ensure parky stays with them. As for the idea that Jimmy Beck was in line to play Lofty, I have never heard that before at all, despite talking at length with Jimmy Perry, David Croft and Don Estelle about the series, plus several other main cast members. I would have thought at last one of them would have mentioned it. I actually did get told that the character of Lofty was the only one not directly based on a real person from the real Royal Artillery Concert Party at Deolali, and he was created specifically for little Don after he would sing on the bus and the set of Dad's Army. Jimmy and David decided they needed Don in the show because his voice was amazing and he was so funny too. So I think there is probably no truth whatsoever in the idea that Jimmy was to be Lofty. And whilst I've never heard any mention of Jimmy Beck being destined for the cast of IAHHM, I'd sort of agree if they had been considering him it would definitely be for the resourceful Londoner Solly, as you suggest. Solly was based on Jimmy Perry's own self (just as he based Pike on himself too) and I think Jimmy Perry would have enjoyed seeing himself played by Jimmy Beck. Indeed he would have had a bright future in both comedies and drama. But having seen Romany Jones, that was definitely not going on to better things. It was dreadful in my opinion. Gawd, that Razmatazz clip was dire! |
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Post by Andy Howells on Sept 4, 2018 8:47:20 GMT 12
Yes the Razzmatazz clip is dire but I thought it would be good for you to see!
It certainly looks unscripted to a point that I imagine Windsor and Melvyn were probably just ad libbing a panto sketch to fill in a few minutes. Still, I bet it was great fun seeing them in panto!
Thanks for your input on the thoughts Dave re Jimmy Beck and possible considerations for IAHHM (or not as we all suspect) - good to have your valuable input there!
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Post by JM2461 on Sept 4, 2018 12:03:15 GMT 12
Re: Edited Episodes
That's the problem with commercial stations showing BBC or ABC shows. From the early-80s Channel 10 in Australia would occasionally screen Dad's Army in a 30 minute timeslot. They would have been cut to some degree, especially as Channel 10 had a reputation (rightly or wrongly) for having the most amount of commercials per hour. You'd probably only get 22 minutes of programme, so they would have to cut a fair bit out. They even used to cut small bits out of MASH and that only runs for about 25 minutes.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 4, 2018 15:33:06 GMT 12
By the way I think we can totally put to rest the allegation regarding James Beck and It Ain't Half Hot Mum, because the very first episode, which was untitled but has been dubbed Meet The Gang by the BBC, was actually recorded on the 3rd of January 1973, exactly a year to the day before it was broadcast. That is seven months before Jimmy Beck fell ill.
The second episode was not recorded till the 12th of October 1973, after the pilot had convinced the BBC hierarchy that a series was warranted.
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Post by Andy Howells on Sept 5, 2018 0:00:40 GMT 12
Thanks Dave - I suspected that might be the case!
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Post by JM2461 on Jan 23, 2019 17:39:33 GMT 12
Airdates for It Ain't Half Hot Mum - Series 1 and 2 - for Sydney, Australia. It screened Sunday nights from 7 September 1975 to 28 December 1975 (except 14 December), on the ABC Channel 2, at 8.20pm for episodes 1.1 to 1.7 and at 9.15pm for episodes 1.8 to 2.8, unless otherwise indicated.
1.1 - Meet the Gang - 7.9.75 (8.20pm)
1.2 - My Lovely Boy - 14.9.75
1.3 - Mutiny of the Punkah Wallahs - 21.9.75
1.4 - A Star is Born - 28.9.75*
1.5 - Jungle Patrol - 5.10.75
1.6 - It's a Wise Child - 12.10.75*
1.7 - The Road to Bannu - 19.10.75
1.8 - The Inspector Calls - 26.10.75 (9.15pm now)
2.1 - Showing the Flag - 2.11.75
2.2 - Down in the Jungle - 9.11.75
2.3 - The Natives are Revolting - 16.11.75
2.4 - Cabaret Time - 23.11.75
2.5 - The Curse of the Sadhu - 30.11.75
2.6 - Forbidden Fruits - 7.12.75 (9.20pm)
2.7 - Has Anyone Seen My Cobra - 21.12.75 (9.10pm)
2.8 - The Night of the Thugs - 28.12.75
* Note: "A Star is Born" and "It's a Wise Child" were apparently wiped/lost at a later date and currently only exist as edited off-air recordings.
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Post by Andy Howells on Jan 24, 2019 6:18:41 GMT 12
I'm back on the DVD's and watched the first two episodes of Series 2 last night.
It struck me how Perry and Croft occasionally stretched storylines over a few episodes (in this case been sent up the jungle to do a show) must have been quite daring as not many sitcoms really did this but gives an opportunity to give depth to storylines.
There are some classic moments too, The Last Post in the first episode been a favourite and I'd forgotten about the nightmarish plane journey in episode 2!
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Post by JM2461 on Jan 25, 2019 13:46:51 GMT 12
It struck me how Perry and Croft occasionally stretched storylines over a few episodes (in this case been sent up the jungle to do a show) must have been quite daring as not many sitcoms really did this but gives an opportunity to give depth to storylines. They often did this with the US sitcom, The Beverly Hillbillies, stretching a storyline over three or four episodes, like a mini-serial, but it was never called "Part 1, Part 2", etc. It does make it easier to tell a longer story rather than try to pack it all into 25-30 minutes. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2019 21:02:48 GMT 12
Yes I remember Happy Days used to sometimes do that, most notably the ridiculous episode where Fonzie was dared to jump the shark on water skis (that notorious episode that coined the phrase "Jumped the shark").
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Post by Alan Hayes on Jan 26, 2019 1:30:24 GMT 12
There are some classic moments too, The Last Post in the first episode been a favourite and I'd forgotten about the nightmarish plane journey in episode 2! 'Showing the Flag' is almost certainly my favourite episode of the whole series. So funny and well performed. |
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Post by Andy Howells on Jan 26, 2019 6:57:53 GMT 12
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Post by Andy Howells on Jan 26, 2019 11:08:20 GMT 12
There were quite a few actors on IAHHM that didn't see the run out from start to finish. George Layton obviously left after two series and sadly Michael Bates died after series 5. But what happened to Barbar Bhatti who played the Punka Whaller Rumzan? His IMDB entry says he went on to appear in other shows, but his career seems to stop around 1981?
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Post by Alan Hayes on Jan 26, 2019 12:32:47 GMT 12
I wonder if he ended up cutting hair... This shop is in Watford.  (Not posted in any seriousness, incidentally!) Attachments:
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 26, 2019 13:35:56 GMT 12
Babar Bhatti became a victim of the ruddy tabloids. Several of the cast and the writers told me that his popularity in the series saw him get interviewed by one of the rags you call newspapers in Britain, and it printed about how his fame meant he was now driving fast cars and going out with all sorts of women, and living it up. The article found its way to his family who were exceedingly displeased and he was packed off back to Pakistan to atone for his 'wicked ways', apparently. Last I heard he was still in Pakistan.
They also missed Kenneth Macdonald and Dino Shafeek too, both also no longer with us.
Has the BBC screened an episode of the show as a tribute to Windsor since he died? Probably not....
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Post by Alan Hayes on Jan 26, 2019 19:16:13 GMT 12
I can well believe the story about Babar Bhatti - and the British gutter press (which accounts for a large chunk of our so-called newspapers) is something that if it went to the wall would, through its absence, make Britain a far better place in which to live. Vile, poisonous rags.  As for Windsor, I don't think there's been a tribute, but as they are often unscheduled, maybe I missed it. However, they'd probably struggle to find an episode that passed all their hand-wringing politically correct criteria. |
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Post by JM2461 on Jan 26, 2019 20:57:12 GMT 12
Re: Tribute for Windsor Davies
Unfortunately he probably has been out of the public eye for too long for people to care or remember. Perish the thought, but if he died 20-25 years ago it may have been different. It's amazing to think he was born only the year after James Beck.
He did have a good TV run though, he did the entire IAHHM series (1974-1981) and then virtually straight into Never The Twain (1981-1991), so he was never really off TV, for long, (in Britain at least) for about 17 years, plus all the other bits-and-pieces he did.
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Post by Andy Howells on Jan 26, 2019 21:43:02 GMT 12
No tribute, but I guess the BBC news coverage was bigger and better than anticipated ( main piece here in Wales). I rather anticipate Grand Slam might get more shown as a tribute (in Wales anyway) - as that is well loved here but I don't think that's been on Welsh Tv for 20 years or so!
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Post by Andy Howells on Jan 26, 2019 21:45:23 GMT 12
That's interesting about Babar - I have a slight recollection of that now you mention it. The papers put paid to a few careers back then especially in "tell all" scenarios.
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Post by jonboy on Jan 27, 2019 2:52:36 GMT 12
I think the last thing that Barbar Bhatti did was play the restaurant manager in an early episode of Only Fools & Horses 'Cash & Curry'..
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(Not posted in any seriousness, incidentally!)
